Informal written warning at work left to find in desk?

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Mark J	Does not sound valid to me. It should be done on a one to one basis. Keep a record of this as you may want to use it as evidence if this goes any further. Was this answer helpful to you? Yes / No

Mittens	No, there has to be a FORMAL verbal warning first, of which the employee is asked if he/she would like a colleague or witness present, then the written warning is normally given if the verbal warning is not abided by...again this is normally done in a review meating with the manager and in person, then there is a second written warning before dismissal. This does not apply if the employee has done anything unlawful. All this should be in the employee's contract. Was this answer helpful to you? Yes / No

Paula B	As far as i'm aware there is no such thing as an informal written warning, any warnings/investigations have to be done with both people present and in most cases a representative for the person being warned/disciplined. It is illegal to do anything other than this unless your mother failed to turn up to a prior meeting in which case a decision can be made without her being present. Was this answer helpful to you? Yes / No

Mark T	It would help to know what country you are talking about - different rules aply in different parts of world. If the warning is informal, then in most countries this means that it does not count towards "dismissal through X number of warnings". Does it SAY it is in informal letter - or is this just how you see it? I agree it is a spineless way to do it - but this may not mean the warning is any less valid - AGAIN this may well depend from place to place. Ignoring for a moment the spineless way of delivering the note - are the complaints accurate? I do not mean "fair and kind" - just "would the complaints being made stand up in an industrial tribunal". If so, then regardless of delivery method - and of the cicrumstances, then it MAY be helpful to regard this as a serious warning. Having an 80 year old mother and having mobility issues is NOT a good excuse for being unfriendly towards clients. Over friendliness may also not be appreciated - but not being friendly to the people who keep the business running is nearly always a GOOD reason to get rid of someone. I hate to say this, but staff who "have favourites" and make everyone else feel unwelcome / second rate, really can harm a business - people quickly talk "Oooh, that Mrs Miggins at fix-a-pet can be a right <expletive> sometimes". Unless hers is the only vet for tens of miles, they will lose business. Perhaps worth speaking to a professional for some guidance - but depending on what country you live, although the delivery of the letter was cowardly, it may still be just as effective - and poor attitude to the people that hand over the cash is ALWAYS a bad move - that needs sorting out quickly. Mark Was this answer helpful to you? Yes / No

JULIE S	If im right then any form of warning must be done in front of the employee and then put in writing she could have a claim for constructive dismussal if she leaves check with ACAS and the CAB. She could have a case against discrimination to are there rules about personal calls, and being over friendly with some and not enough with others is he having a laugh Was this answer helpful to you? Yes / No

george_graham_crayford	you need at least a verbal warning before he obviously doesnt like her and is mounting an attack to get rid of her the phone usage will get ehr everytime, there is no excuse, get a mobile now talk to cits advice aswell, youll need to go to a tribunal soon Was this answer helpful to you? Yes / No

Robin	In short, NO. A warning can only be given AFTER full disciplinary proceedings have taken place. Disciplinary proceedings start by the person being informed that the rules of the working place have been violated by them and that disciplinary proceedings will be taken against them. The person is then required to make a statement, including ALL mitigating circumstances. A hearing will then take place between the senior management, the defendant and their representative at a mutually agreed time and place. IF found guilty of violating the workplace rules the senior management will decide which course of action to take. There are rules and regulations governing this. Your mum CANNOT just be sacked. The outcome of the hearing MUST reflect the violation that took place. The warning that your mum has received, is NOT worth the paper it is written on from the management point of view. However, if I were her I would take it to a Solicitor and use it as a weapon against themselves. There are rules and regulations that MUST be adhered to BY LAW, in these situations. Was this answer helpful to you? Yes / No

Firefox	Sounds to me like he's trying to get rid of her because of the age. As he can't just say that he's looking for another reason to use. Was this answer helpful to you? Yes / No

Mel	First of all, this is hideously bad management on the part of the boss. If I were your mom, I'd take the thing home and keep it as evidence for a future wrongful termination case, but when this idiot comes back, I'd pretend I'd never seen it. How can he prove she received it? Have her start practicing her wide-eyed innocent look now...."You left something for me? In my desk? Hmmmm....I didn't see anything. What was it?" Second, you are correct, your mom may have a discrimination claim if this moves forward to a termination. Let's see: she's older than the other workers, she is disabled, I'd bet there are NO policies regarding personal use of the phone or Internet, and she is being given "disparate treatment" from the other, younger workers - the labor board should have a field day here. I'd recommend that she just continue to gather evidence, and document EVERYTHING that goes on in this office - who is granted a day off when she is refused, who is on the Net for 3 hours while she is being chastised for the same, etc. She should also do her best to keep her nose clean - limit her personal calls and Net surfing, etc. There is something called a "constructive discharge", which basically means trying to force an employee to quit. I suspect that is what's taking place here. If he continues to "discipline" or even fires her (or asks her to quit), she should file a wrongful term claim with the labor board. www.dol.gov can give you the link to the labor board in your state...www.eeoc.gov is another site that may prove useful. Best of luck. Was this answer helpful to you? Yes / No

Tufty Porcupine	Although it may seem a bit mean, Internet usage in work time and use of the employer's phone for personal use could both be valid reasons for a warning. How warnings are issued and the stages of the disciplinary process will depend on each employer's policy (they should have a written disciplinary procedure, so your mum should ask for a copy of this if she does not have access to one herself (which she should!) Clearly this cannot be treated as a formal warning as there is no evidence that your mum has received the letter. It sounds like an informal warning which would have been much better handled verbally. So, to answer your question, yes a warning can be given in this way (as Marcus says, I would expect the letter to have been in a sealed envelope marked 'private & confidential', otherwsie I'd make a complaint) although I think the manager has handled it badly. Regarding your additional comments - it is no defence to claim that other people are doing the same thing I'm afraid - although if the company has knowingly allowed this to happen over a period of time then it could be a defence that this is assumed to be permissable. Not a great defence though! Regarding the data protection act - which section of the act would this contravene? None that I'm aware of I'm afraid. Was this answer helpful to you? Yes / No

?	Is it actually a written warning, or "Here are a few things that need to change about the way things are done around here..." type of letter? The fact that your mother is disabled and struggles has nothing to do with it. She isn't paid to talk to her mother on the phone, nor use the internet. Yes, they should have had a face-to-face chat, and leaving a letter was spineless, but it sounds like they are fair points. Was this answer helpful to you? Yes / No

Davy B	Of course you can if you are totally spineless. Management is a two way process though and would suggest that she makes an appointment to speak to this person to discuss [not argue about] the concerns. She does perhaps need to consider - to some degree - how she can help the employer and how the employer can help her to do her job. Was this answer helpful to you? Yes / No

de_falla	In my response o your question I want to approach it from a slightly different direction. First let me say it is one of the most difficult things a manager has to do; is to discipline an employee it can be very stressful for both parties particularly if the employee has become a friend or has long service. People react differently to such procedures, some get angry, others violent and some cry. For me those that cried were the most difficult. It may be that your mother’s boss did not want to go through the legal procedure because he does not want to dismiss your mother. The letter may just be his way of giving your mother a “bollocking” or has one of my old bosses called it the “harsh word”. The first thing your mother must do is speak to he boss to ascertain his exact position this is vital. If it’s just the “harsh word” then provide your mother works to her employment contract all should be well. From your letter it is obvious that your mother has been using the Internet and the telephone for her own private purposes. This can legally be described as theft and theft is a reason for instant dismissal. You did not say what your mother disability was, if progressive it is possible that sometime in the future your mother may not be capable of doing the job, that is she is unable to fulfil her part of the contract, this is also grounds for dismissal. On the other hand if some aids are needed to help your mother perform her tasks, then the employer should provide them. Failure to does this, would not look good for the employer at a tribunal. With regard to be unfriendly or overfriendly, this is normally a reflection of attitudes. Notwithstanding your mother should make sure she treats all visitors to the surgery with respect and courtesy, no matter whether she likes them or not. However if it is your mother bosses intension is to dismiss her for smothering other than gross misconduct, then he must follow the procedures laid down by law and the rules governing your mother’s employment. That is verbal warning (when giving such a warning I always recorded it in my diary and your mother should do the same.) with this warning should be a statement setting out those areas where your mothers performance and or conduct needs to be improved. The warning should run for a limited time say three months. During this period there should regular meetings between your mother and her boss to monitor progress. If at the end of this period there no progress, your mother should get a letter setting out where she has failed to improve. Then a further warning can be given normally described a recorded warning, again this should be followed by further training and meeting. If this proves unsatisfactory form the employer’s point of view, the same procedures should follow, trainings and meetings. Then we get to the final warning it procedures training and meetings again this time no progress means dismissal. You need to remember that a contract of employment exist between you mother and her employers and that this is just like any other contract certain elements need to exist for a contract to be enforceable. The contract does not need to be in writing it can be implied by conduct, custom and practice etc. If the contracts in writing it will have certain conditions, notwithstanding the written conditions the law will imply certain conditions, for example: an employee will give good and faithful service and will be honest they will not falsify expenses claims etc. Ther will be reciprocal conditions for which the employer must follow. The advice that you have been given regarding ACAS is well founded they provide an excellent service. Finally employers can dismiss any body at anytime, they may be forced to pay compensation if they loose at the tribunal but an employer does not have give a person their job back even if they loose a tribunal. That is the Law of the land established long before current Law of Employment Acts. Was this answer helpful to you? Yes / No

ryaniz123	there scamming her for her money i would quit the job and run away Was this answer helpful to you? Yes / No

WTamSP	hi your poor mum I really feel for her he is spineless It can't stand you need a verbal warning as well wish her luck from me please thanks Was this answer helpful to you? Yes / No

angeleyez	That's horrible and im sure it is borderline discrimination. He should of had an informal meeting with her and explained his concerns. She then could of her stated her reasons and then there could of been an agreement reached. The letter (even though she should of had a verbal warning first as that's standard procedure in a good organisation) should of outlined the concerns and given a date of another meeting where both your mum and her manager would discuss the concerns and improvements. Also a professionals manager would never ever discuss the performance of an employee with other colleagues unless they r senior management. I think she should take this up, cos it's not on and people have sued for less than this. Was this answer helpful to you? Yes / No

Sarah H	They still have routes they should go down. Tell her to speak to the boss direct, if no joy is found tell her to appeal to HR or the next immediate boss. If there isn't one, tell her to go to Citizens Advice for where to go next. Employers think they can treat people like crap...and they will if one lets them! :D Was this answer helpful to you? Yes / No

ben_m_g	It does seem pretty spinless but theres nothing ilegal or otherwise wrong about it. It does sound like maby she deserved to warning, some companies fire people for lesser things. Was this answer helpful to you? Yes / No

marcus h	You get some stupid answers to questions on here! No he cannot give her a written warning by leaving it in here desk!! The guy sounds like a bit of a prat, and obviously is one of these people who believes the world revolves around them. He CAN however leave her an informal notice in a sealed envelope marked PRIVATE AND CONFIDENTIAL. The difference between these two being that the FORMAL warnign would go against the personnel final and could be used in any future disciplinary action. There would also have to be a formal meeting to discuss the grounds for the written warning. To be honest from the sounds of it he sounds like he wants to get rid of your mother, judging by the way the letter was left to purposely upset her and the nit-picking contents. With regards to that, if your mum hasn't told anyone at work she received the letter to just ignore it. She never found it in her desk! (I asume she job shares) If she has then I would advise her to put a letter in writing to him at the company address and CC one of the other partners in on it. Just get her to state how upset she is and how unvalued she feels by this, how she has NEVER had any problems in the 10 or more years that shes been there and that he has never said anything to her before. Should problems continue to persist, she contact her local council or seeing as she obviously can use the internet:- www.disability.gov.uk There is of course the option to put in a counter claim stating that he has been harrasing her due to her disablilty rather tahn personality or whatever else bugs him. In which case she would need to go to the same website for advise. To be honest if it was my mother I would have a quiet word with the guy, but unfortunately that is not what to advise in a 'civilised' society. OH!!! before I forget if he left the letter in an unsealed envelope in a public place that falls under Data protection legislation and he could be fined! Was this answer helpful to you? Yes / No

giggly nurse	Your poor mum, sounds like she's having a rotten time right now. Her boss sounds like a cowardly, spineless prick! The least he could have done was hand it to her, instead of just leaving it for her to find. Legally he can't give a written warning unless a verbal warning has been issued. did he follow it this way? Hope everything works out for the best and not causing your mum too much stress Was this answer helpful to you? Yes / No

dixidan_2000	I don't think she can be given an informal warning without both people being present. Tell her to take it up with her boss when he comes back. Check with CAB as well Was this answer helpful to you? Yes / No